Externalising conversation
Externalising conversation
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Short definition
Externalising conversation is a narrative method that separates the person from the problem so that the problem can be explored, named, questioned and responded to.
Level
Expanded definition
Externalising conversation is a central method in narrative therapy.
It is based on the idea that the person is not the problem; the problem is the problem.
Rather than describing a person as anxious, angry, defiant or depressed, externalising conversation helps describe the problem as something that is affecting the person, the family or the relationship.
For example:
- “She is anxious” may become “anxiety has been interfering with her life.”
- “He is angry” may become “anger has been taking over in difficult moments.”
- “This family is broken” may become “conflict has been getting between family members.”
Externalising conversation helps create space between identity and problem. This space can make it easier to explore the effects of the problem, the person’s responses to it, and the values, skills and relationships that may support resistance to the problem.
White himself described the therapist's stance during externalising conversation through the metaphor of an investigative reporter — someone whose inquiry aims to expose the workings of power and privilege behind a problem, without stepping into problem-solving, reform, or direct confrontation. This positions the therapist's engagement as genuinely curious and purposeful, but deliberately not neutral about the problem itself — closer to exposing how it operates than to remaining detached from caring whether it continues.
Externalising does not remove responsibility. Instead, it creates a less blaming and more curious way to understand the problem and its influence.
Purpose of this method
The purpose of this method is to reduce blame, shame and problem-saturated identity descriptions.
It helps people and families examine the problem as something affecting them rather than something that defines them.
Externalising conversation can support agency by helping people notice how they already resist, challenge, escape, reduce or respond differently to the problem.
It also helps families move from blaming one another towards joining together in curiosity about the problem’s effects.
When to use this method
Use this method when:
- the person is being described as the problem
- the family is stuck in blame
- problem labels have become part of identity
- a young person feels defined by symptoms or behaviour
- professional language is narrowing how the person is seen
- shame is blocking conversation
- the family needs a less blaming way to talk about difficulty
- the therapist wants to explore the effects and influence of the problem
How this method works
Externalising conversation usually begins by separating the person from the problem.
The therapist listens carefully to the person’s own language and helps identify an experience-near name for the problem.
The therapist then maps the influence of the problem on the person’s life, relationships, identity and future.
The conversation also maps the influence of the person on the problem by exploring moments of resistance, refusal, protest, skill, care or agency.
The method often moves between the present, the past and the future.
It can begin with what is happening now, explore how the problem developed over time, and then consider what future responses may become possible.
Non-clinical example
A person says:
“I am lazy because I never get things done.”
An externalising conversation might explore “the stuckness” or “the pressure” rather than treating laziness as the person’s identity.
The therapist may ask when the stuckness appears, what it gets the person to believe, what it stops them doing, and whether there are times when the person manages to reduce its influence.
Clinical example
A family describes a child as “angry”.
An externalising conversation may help the family speak about “anger taking over” rather than “an angry child”.
The therapist may ask when anger shows up, what anger gets the child to do, how anger affects family relationships, and whether there are times when the child keeps anger from taking charge.
This can help the family see the child as more than anger and begin to notice care, fairness, fear, frustration or attempts to be heard.
Step-by-step process
- Meet the person apart from the problem.
- Begin in the here and now.
- Move into the past where relevant.
- Move towards the future.
- Separate the person from the problem.
- Name the problem using experience-near language.
- Map the influence of the problem.
- Evaluate the effects of the problem.
- Justify the evaluation.
- Map the influence of the person on the problem.
- Identify resources, resistance and agency.
- Translate discoveries into future action.
Questions before using this method
- Is the person being described as the problem?
- What problem labels are being used?
- What words does the person or family use for the difficulty?
- Could externalising reduce shame or blame here?
- What risks are there if I externalise too quickly?
- How can I preserve responsibility while separating identity from the problem?
- What cultural, relational or professional meanings shape the problem description?
Questions during use
- What name would you give this problem?
- When did the problem first enter your life?
- What was going on when it first appeared?
- What does the problem try to get you to believe about yourself?
- What effects has the problem had on your life and relationships?
- Who else has been affected by the problem?
- Are there times when the problem has less influence?
- What have you done that the problem would not have wanted you to do?
- What helps you resist or reduce the problem’s influence?
Questions after use
- Did externalising language fit for the person or family?
- Did it reduce blame or create more distance from the problem?
- Did I use the family’s own language?
- Did I avoid making the problem sound like a separate real object in an unhelpful way?
- Did I preserve responsibility and accountability?
- What unique outcomes or acts of resistance became visible?
- What method or technique would deepen the work next?
Related epistemologies
Narrative epistemology Social constructionism Poststructuralist epistemology Postmodern epistemology Relational epistemology Systemic epistemology
Related schools and models
Narrative Systemic Therapy Conversational Dialogic Post-Milan
Related concepts
Externalisation Problem as separate from person Dominant story Problem-saturated story Alternative story Unique outcomes Agency Resistance Experience-near definition Identity construction Positioning Language games Meaning-making
Related techniques
Externalising questions Problem naming Experience-near naming questions Mapping the influence of the problem questions Mapping the influence of the person questions Evaluation questions Justification questions Future action questions Externalising metaphors Unique outcome questions
Related pathways
Narrative pathway Conversational pathway Dialogic pathway Power and culture pathway Family and relational dynamics pathway
Key theorists / contributors
Michael White David Epston Alice Morgan Jill Freedman Gene Combs Stephen Madigan
Key texts / references
- White, M., & Epston, D. (1990). Narrative Means to Therapeutic Ends. Norton.
- White, M. (2007). Maps of Narrative Practice. Norton.
- Morgan, A. (2000). What Is Narrative Therapy? An Easy-to-Read Introduction. Dulwich Centre Publications.
- Freedman, J., & Combs, G. (1996). Narrative Therapy: The Social Construction of Preferred Realities. Norton.
- Madigan, S. (2011). Narrative Therapy. American Psychological Association.
Notes / source material
Externalising conversation should be used carefully.
Some people may find externalising language freeing, while others may find it strange or artificial. The therapist should follow the person’s language and check whether the externalised description fits.
Externalising should not be used to avoid accountability. It is possible to separate a person from a problem while still exploring responsibility, repair and the effects of actions on others.
Review status
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